<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Pilot Pay</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.passionaviator.com/2009/10/16/pilot-pay/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.passionaviator.com/2009/10/16/pilot-pay/</link>
	<description>People Living the "High Life", Literally.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:41:01 -0500</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: H. Michael Miley</title>
		<link>http://www.passionaviator.com/2009/10/16/pilot-pay/comment-page-1/#comment-65281</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Michael Miley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 16:09:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.passionaviator.com/?p=261#comment-65281</guid>
		<description>thanks for putting all of this out on the table for review. I have no doubt that some will not like your conclusions but I suggest they might argue with your comparisons based the definition of it&#039;s starting point. Your arguments are based on the first year airline position vs first year CPA position. For the many years I was learning the aviation trade, I considered the first year airline position the GOAL, not the starting point.

If I were to count the pay/value ratio of the airline position, I would have to include the costs and struggles I incurred to get there in the first place. I went through a 141 school for everything post private pilot (which was part 91) which took about 3 years and included a bachelor&#039;s degree. That time I consider valuable and the costs appropriate for the kind of training provided. Assuming the process for CPA might fit similar timing, I&#039;ll put that value out of the equation and consider it a wash.

It is the years after the degree which I would mention in the discussion.... the time as a flight instructor struggling to make ends meet. My first year out of school I netted roughly $16K while working full time every week and weekend teaching. All while starting to pay back the associated student loans. If not for my wife working, we could not have afforded the tiny apartment in far western suburban Chicago.

Now, I don&#039;t want anyone thinking I&#039;m bashing flight instruction as a profession. I&#039;m not. I love being a CFII. I love the teaching and the diversity. I just couldn&#039;t afford to do it full time.

A couple of years into this, I felt I had the hours to start getting into the airlines as I had planned. I started talking with some current and former airline folks I knew and trusted to get an idea what the job is really like and they never complained about the pay. Their arguments were ones you referenced... while not working more than two or three weeks out of the month, when they were working there was no leeway if something happened at home. They also talked about the constant battle with fatigue and rising stresses. One, who had gotten out of the airlines to be a part time CFI and full time psychologist felt less than comfortable around what she felt was a group with a higher than average alcohol dependency... likely from stresses leading to depression.

I&#039;m sure that I was getting only part of the story from each, but they all agreed on one thing... I should think twice about becoming an airline pilot.

I did.

I went into technology instead and walked into a $35K a year job and have never looked back. Fifteen years later, I&#039;m certainly making more than that. I&#039;m with a notable company with what I hope is a long future. We are married with a couple of kids... and my school loans are finally paid off. All the while, i&#039;ve kept my hand in the CFII world by teaching, though not enough as I would like.

Recently I got caught up with the 20 or so others in my class at that flight school and I learned some interesting things.
1) I was the only one who didn&#039;t go airline
2) I was the only one who wasn&#039;t furloughed/released/laid off/etc from an airline
3) I was the only one who wasn&#039;t furloughed/released/laid off/etc from any company
4) I was in the majority as more than half never went back to the airlines after their second furlough. Like me, they are now working outside jobs.
5) I was in the minority of those who had seen their child born

Those still in the industry certainly make more than I do now, but the break even point of total pay over time worked out to be about 10 years... if you include working in aviation before getting into an airline.

For your sake, I do hope you always keep the positive outlook you have towards the working in the cockpit. I totally agree that it comes with some of the best views and perks around. Just remember when you hear from the complainers around you that their arguments about money might actually be an argument about about the total value of the position... not just the individual paycheck.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for putting all of this out on the table for review. I have no doubt that some will not like your conclusions but I suggest they might argue with your comparisons based the definition of it&#8217;s starting point. Your arguments are based on the first year airline position vs first year CPA position. For the many years I was learning the aviation trade, I considered the first year airline position the GOAL, not the starting point.</p>
<p>If I were to count the pay/value ratio of the airline position, I would have to include the costs and struggles I incurred to get there in the first place. I went through a 141 school for everything post private pilot (which was part 91) which took about 3 years and included a bachelor&#8217;s degree. That time I consider valuable and the costs appropriate for the kind of training provided. Assuming the process for CPA might fit similar timing, I&#8217;ll put that value out of the equation and consider it a wash.</p>
<p>It is the years after the degree which I would mention in the discussion&#8230;. the time as a flight instructor struggling to make ends meet. My first year out of school I netted roughly $16K while working full time every week and weekend teaching. All while starting to pay back the associated student loans. If not for my wife working, we could not have afforded the tiny apartment in far western suburban Chicago.</p>
<p>Now, I don&#8217;t want anyone thinking I&#8217;m bashing flight instruction as a profession. I&#8217;m not. I love being a CFII. I love the teaching and the diversity. I just couldn&#8217;t afford to do it full time.</p>
<p>A couple of years into this, I felt I had the hours to start getting into the airlines as I had planned. I started talking with some current and former airline folks I knew and trusted to get an idea what the job is really like and they never complained about the pay. Their arguments were ones you referenced&#8230; while not working more than two or three weeks out of the month, when they were working there was no leeway if something happened at home. They also talked about the constant battle with fatigue and rising stresses. One, who had gotten out of the airlines to be a part time CFI and full time psychologist felt less than comfortable around what she felt was a group with a higher than average alcohol dependency&#8230; likely from stresses leading to depression.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure that I was getting only part of the story from each, but they all agreed on one thing&#8230; I should think twice about becoming an airline pilot.</p>
<p>I did.</p>
<p>I went into technology instead and walked into a $35K a year job and have never looked back. Fifteen years later, I&#8217;m certainly making more than that. I&#8217;m with a notable company with what I hope is a long future. We are married with a couple of kids&#8230; and my school loans are finally paid off. All the while, i&#8217;ve kept my hand in the CFII world by teaching, though not enough as I would like.</p>
<p>Recently I got caught up with the 20 or so others in my class at that flight school and I learned some interesting things.<br />
1) I was the only one who didn&#8217;t go airline<br />
2) I was the only one who wasn&#8217;t furloughed/released/laid off/etc from an airline<br />
3) I was the only one who wasn&#8217;t furloughed/released/laid off/etc from any company<br />
4) I was in the majority as more than half never went back to the airlines after their second furlough. Like me, they are now working outside jobs.<br />
5) I was in the minority of those who had seen their child born</p>
<p>Those still in the industry certainly make more than I do now, but the break even point of total pay over time worked out to be about 10 years&#8230; if you include working in aviation before getting into an airline.</p>
<p>For your sake, I do hope you always keep the positive outlook you have towards the working in the cockpit. I totally agree that it comes with some of the best views and perks around. Just remember when you hear from the complainers around you that their arguments about money might actually be an argument about about the total value of the position&#8230; not just the individual paycheck.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
